We Are Lions Ministry: The Lions Den
We Are Lions Ministry: The Lions Den
Redefining Masculinity Through Christ’s Love
What if the true essence of masculinity has been misconceived all along? Join us on this enlightening episode as the Lion Crew—Corey, Adam, and Jon—redefine what it means to be a man through the lens of scripture. We challenge conventional views and stereotypes by turning to the life of Jesus as the ultimate model of virtue. Embracing attributes such as humility, service, and sacrificial love, we invite you to explore how these qualities contrast sharply with traditional figures like King David and Samson, who are often celebrated for their physical strength.
Our conversation takes a candid look at how societal norms shape perceptions of masculinity, drawing parallels to modern cultural icons like Andrew Tate and Jocko Willink. We argue for a more inclusive understanding that celebrates emotional expression and vulnerability alongside strength and resilience. By examining both scriptural teachings and personal stories, we illustrate how this reimagined masculinity can transform relationships, particularly marriage, by emphasizing the power of sacrificial love and mutual respect. Through teachings from Ephesians 5, we underscore the importance of equal partnership and true leadership in nurturing deep, transformative relationships.
Finally, this episode extends an invitation to embody one's beliefs through love and service, reflecting Christ's love not just within family dynamics but also in wider community interactions. By focusing on themes of compassion, connection, and grace, we discuss how these values can foster spiritual growth and genuine transformation, both personally and collectively. As we wrap up, we share our mission to inspire listeners to live a Christ-centered life and appreciate any support that helps further this cause.
Hey everyone, welcome to the we Are Lions podcast presented by Corey, Adam and John, the Lion Crew. We are so thankful that you have decided to join us today, or if you've joined us in the past, thank you, thank you, thank you. Your continued support and prayers mean a lot to us. We also want you to engage with us. Please email us at wearelionsministry at gmailcom. We'd love to discuss topics or ways you can get involved with us and our ministry. We love putting this podcast out to help people grow their faith and understand how truly they are loved by a good, good father. So again, thank you, guys, for joining us. This is the start of season two, so we're so excited to get rolling with this, but I do encourage you go check out the several episodes that we have already put out. Hey guys, again thank you. Let's get into the episode.
Speaker 2:What's up everybody, welcome, welcome, welcome to the Lions Did a we Are Lions podcast group here. I got Corey, I got Adam. We're just three guys coming together to give out some good content. Hopefully it's good. Handsome guys, too Handsome guys, I'd say my wife would agree. But man, it's always awesome to get with these guys and just we got another topic today and just kind of be led on where the Holy Spirit needs us to go and we don't get to meet all the time. So it's always an awesome time that we get together and do this, usually on Saturday mornings early. But you know, we'll see what goes on, but how you guys doing doing well, man, living the dream, living the dream, amen.
Speaker 2:Well, today we got an awesome topic. We're gonna just if you've been following us for a little while, you know, we just kind of popcorn it and somebody lead and then we'll just kind of interject and then maybe we'll bring other things to the table. But, as always, if you do usually it's people that are connected to us Let us know. If there's a particular topic that you want us to discuss, you can get with us. We are lionsministry at gmailcom. You can also email us if you want to give, because we can. I think down there below us in the comment area or the bio area of wherever you listen to, should have a link to our given tab, I think. If not, just email us, we are lions ministry at gmailcom, because this stuff costs money, right, guys? I mean, this setup is not free. Not free the the. Oh not, yeah, anyways and for the.
Speaker 4:I know you guys can probably hear that we have a mascot today yeah. Yeah, johnny's dog Cruz is joining us. He's one of the boys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I might be moving him downstairs in a minute, but we'll get into it, unless he gets crazy here. But, corey, what are we talking? I just threw that on you. What are we talking about today?
Speaker 4:I'm here for it. It was my idea to put it out there. Today we want to talk about biblical masculinity, what it looks like to actually be a man, and this is not like a pound your chest. We're not those guys that are like pound your chest, act like King Kong I'm the greatest you know. We're not. We're not saying that that's masculinity. We want to take a true look at scripture and we want to see what does the Bible say about being a man. What does being a man look like, Whether that's being a husband, being a dad, just being a man existing in the world? What does it look like to be a man according to the scripture?
Speaker 4:So that's where we're going to spend a little bit of time today, and I actually want to start with the scripture because it's kind of a fun one for me. I like to. I like what. I just like listening to Paul. I was talking to a friend of mine this morning before I came over here with you guys, and when I look at Paul's letters, I feel like the majority of Paul's letters are basically just telling the church to grow up a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's either like he'll start them off like calling them dearly beloved and highly sanctified, and then the next eight chapters he's just like can you please be normal for just one second? Like can you stop being freaks?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, if he were writing today, you could sum up a lot of Paul's teachings in just a couple of sentences and it's like grow the heck up, mature a little bit, stop fighting over stupid things and just live in harmony amongst each other. But the scripture that I want to start with today is actually in first Corinthians, chapter 16. And this is in verse 13. I'm reading out of the ESV, the good old ESV. It says be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men Watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong and let all that you do be done in love. Yeah, it's fun for me because I look at all of those things and you could probably write an entire sermon, maybe a book, on that one scripture and break down each one of those things. But then, right in the middle of B of all of those things you know, he says be watchful, stand firm in the faith. Then he says act like men. And then he closes with be strong and do everything in love. Yeah, and he, so he like he bookends what being a man is and in the middle says be a man, you know. And so those things, and we can break them down a little bit more. We have a lot more that we'll talk about.
Speaker 4:But being a man is not just about. You know, I am man. Hear me roar. That's that's not. That's not what being a man is.
Speaker 4:I think, personally, to be a man, to be a husband, to be a father, is to be a leader in the biblical sense of what we would call the demonized word today. To be a husband, to be a father, is to be a leader. But then to look at what Jesus taught about being a leader, jesus says if you want to lead, you must first be the servant of all others. Right, and that what Jesus teaches. And so when I think about the patriarchy, or I think about being a leader, or I think about being a man, I think first of I need to be the best servant of all.
Speaker 4:It's not about and listen, I'm all for this whole alpha thing. You know, I like being strong, I want to be fit, and I think that there are things that we could talk about there too, about the biblical responsibility of caring for oneself. But in this, in the sense of like being a man, I think you need to first learn to be a servant. You know, it used to get said to me, and you've. You've heard this in corporate America and you've heard it in church world If serving is below you, then leading is above you, and so I think the number one mark of a true man is a man that is willing to serve. What say you?
Speaker 3:That's good, I agree with you. I agree with you 100%. Sorry, I'm far from the mic.
Speaker 4:Adam has a couple of books. As always, I have my from the mic. Adam has a couple of books. As always, I have my phone with scriptures on it, and Adam came today with four books, not going to use all of them.
Speaker 3:I've got four more in the car. Really.
Speaker 4:Because I couldn't decide which ones I wanted to bring in. I almost brought the book Wild at Heart by John Eldridge. It's a great book For those who are wondering as the pages turn he's not turning the thin pages of a Bible? I don't think. Is that a Bible? Oh, it's like an old Bible, Orthodox the Orthodox Study Bible. I thought he was turning like a book of the early church father's history or something.
Speaker 3:No, I'm with you and I think like Paul when he's saying that. I think when he's saying act like men, I agree with you. I don't think he's saying go pound your chest, go hang out together and pull your chest what was the old Snickers commercial? When they're eating the Snickers and they're like, quick, do something manly, and they start pulling their chest hair. I don't think that's what he's saying. I'm not saying I don't think he's saying be the man's man, don't shower, you know, for a month. You know, I don't think that's what he's saying. I think he's speaking more to the maturity there which there are a lot of like.
Speaker 3:If we look at masculinity today, there are a lot of men's men, so to speak. You know, I know a lot of and this isn't a critique of anybody but I know a lot of guys who do masculine, rough, gruff things but are not mature when it comes to their marriage. That you know they. They do the man's man things but then when it comes to their kids, like they're just their absentee fathers because they're stuck in their hobbies, you know. So it's like that the doing the manly things is not what makes that's. Paul would look at them and say act like men, you know, or a lot of the husbands who are like I'm a man by God, you know, but on the other hand, like they're not going to you know, they're not loving their wife the way that Christ, you know, loved the church.
Speaker 3:I think our ultimate example and this is what I think Paul's pointing to is our perfect definition of masculinity is Jesus. And yet in 1 Corinthians, like when Paul is talking about the gospel, he says the message of the cross is weakness and it's foolishness. He says it's foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those of us who are being saved, it is the wisdom and the power of God. To those who are perishing, but those of us who are being saved, it is the wisdom and the power of God. And so we see Jesus. You know when, when he's accused, he keeps his mouth shut. You know when he's when he he doesn't hit back. When he struck, when they spit on him, he just takes it. You know he. And so, like we look at that and it's like that's not fun to look at, that doesn't. That doesn't get the, that doesn't get the manly. You know the testosterone pumping of like I'm about to kick. You know I'm about to.
Speaker 4:He's not flipping tables in that instance even with peter, right, I mean peter in the garden. Didn't he tell peter? When he cut the guy's ear off, he's like if you live by the sword, you'll die by the sword yes, and as a matter of like, peter, like I've heard.
Speaker 3:I've heard preachers and theologians talk about how Peter was fighting the most just war in history. He was defending Jesus, taking up arms to defend God, and Jesus calls him Satan. He says get behind me, satan. And so that should turn our understanding on its ear upside down when we see what Jesus is saying there. But no, everybody wants to look at the warrior king, king David, for this is what a masculine man does. Everybody wants to look at Samson and say, well, he was a man's man, but we're Christians. We follow the example set by Jesus. We're not Davidians, we're not Samsonians or whatever you want to say. We follow the example set by Jesus. We're not Davidians, we're not Samsonians or whatever you want to say. We follow the example of Jesus and I think that Jesus is the perfect example of what it means to be masculine.
Speaker 3:I heard Casey Doss say this one time. He said what would you think about the people in your church or the people in your circle? There's a guy in his early 30s, really close with his mom, never had a really good job, never married, still lives at home, doesn't have a whole lot of money saved up. What would we call him? We would call him a failure, but the Bible calls him Jesus. He's not on the path to success. He's not following the Dave Ramsey the snowball to get out. Not that he was in debt, but by our standards he's not the alpha person. You know he's not. He's not everyday grinding trying to put money in the bank. You know he doesn't fit the mold of what we would deem as the successful man, and yet he is the definition of what it means to be human, like he came and redefined that for us, the definition of what it means to be human Like he came and redefined that for us.
Speaker 3:So, when we explore this topic of masculinity, the angle that I'm going to take is it's, it's not and I don't think, I don't think we're going to super disagree on this, but I agree it's. It's not the pounding your chest, it's not. I am man, hear me roar. True masculinity to someone who doesn't follow Jesus. Like true masculinity to someone who doesn't follow Jesus, like our masculinity is to protect and serve to sacrifice, to be willing to be misunderstood, to be willing to be considered weak, to be willing to be, to be willing to yeah, to be willing to be considered weak and honestly be ridiculed. But because we're following the example set for us by Jesus, you know, you don't have.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, for me, one of the hardest things to do is you don't have to defend yourself all the time. Sometimes, shutting up and being quiet is a sign of being a man. Yes, you don't always have to fight back. You don't always have to defend yourself, and that's something that I've learned as I've gotten older, into my 30s. It's not always a matter of a defense right. It's like my character can speak for itself, and the fact that I follow Christ can speak for itself. If my character comes into question, I don't have to call the person that called it into question and be like how dare you question my integrity?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because there have been times where I wanted to do that, oh, absolutely Absolutely. But the reality is is as long as I'm doing what I know is the right thing, if someone else calls my integrity into question, that's on them to deal with that. It's not on me to go out defending myself all the time. Now, my wife was a really big proponent in helping me realize that I did not have to fight my own battles all the time and I did not have to defend myself. But I mean, when you look at Jesus, he didn't feel the need to defend himself all the time. Now, there were times where he did go on the defense for God and there were, you know, the flipping tables, that whole thing, but that was defending the house of God from the immoral use of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Well, so there are multiple aspects to that story and what's funny is, like we latch on to that because we want, like we don't want to give up our violence, we don't want to give up our, our, we don't want to give up our depravity, even if you will I'm not usually a proponent of that term but we're like, yeah, Jesus flipped tables. I can go in here and almost said a King James word for donkey. We want to go in and just act like idiots and call it righteous indignation. And so we look at that and we're like, well, Jesus disagreed with what they were doing. So we went there and kicked butt.
Speaker 3:Two things, yes, Like they call it the cleansing of the temple. Sure, and you know I've heard people be like, well, we can't sell. We can't sell stuff in church. That wasn't the issue. God's not against your church. You know selling. You know CDs or, back in the day, tapes of the message. That's not it. You know there's an aspect of it of. You know he was against it.
Speaker 3:The cheat, like what's it called? The uneven weights, basically like in the currency exchange, yeah, yeah, but the biggest thing was they were selling sacrifices and symbolically, that's selling self-righteousness. You could go there, purchase your sacrifice. It was a super jacked up, expensive price, inflated price. Go and make your sacrifice.
Speaker 3:He's driving out every artificial sacrifice because he is the Lamb of God, and so we missed the theological point of it of he's driving out all of these inferior things because he is the sacrifice. He is the Lamb of God that takes the sin of the world, and we miss that point because we want to justify us losing our temper. You know, the Bible says be angry and sin not. We want to forget about that passage too. You know, because we just want to be like I disagree with the election results, I'm going to go and act like a fool. You know, or that's the thing. Even in that moment, Jesus wasn't just mad that they were people Like he did say like you've turned this house of prayer into a den of thieves, and this is my father's house, and he cleansed the temple. But we missed the point that he's driving out the false sacrifices. He's driving out that self-righteousness because he is our hope of righteousness.
Speaker 2:You guys are making some great points. It's almost like the one thing. I'm you're kind of shifting my mindset a little bit on this angle, which I like, but I'm not prepared for this. So what I'm getting ready to say, I'm going to try to put it together, but it's like we have a diluted view of being masculine. It's diluted because I think we're going to naturally, what I'm saying isn't going to back up what you're saying, but I also have a couple of question marks too. But I feel like you as creation. We know, back in Genesis, God even sets up roles with men and women. Neither once does he say one is greater than the other, but he pretty much says there's roles that complement who we are, our DNA as men and as women. So maybe we can get a woman's perspective on one of the next podcasts about being biblical feminine. How do you say it?
Speaker 2:Femininity, Femininity is a word, that's a word Biblical feminism yeah, just to hear perspective from a female, but that's maybe another time. But we're on earth, living out our I'll call it living out our DNA, like living out who we are as individuals is to guard, to govern, to secure, to do all those things. But we're interjecting it into a culture and what happens is like we're in the South, we're raised a particular way to be men, and it's because of our fathers I'm not saying our fathers in general, I'm just saying in general men have passed on their masculinity to us and what happens is we become less biblical and more about culture when, biblically, it should change the culture. But oftentimes the culture changes who we are as Christians, and so my thought process is it's the hobbies, the cars, the tearing out the hair, the strongman, competition on TV, the everything that we say oh, that makes you a man, or the CEO, or the guy that drives a really nice car that makes you a man.
Speaker 2:I feel like part of that is creation being lived out. It's just diluted and therefore we let that begin to define us instead of our identity, which is really. Men do cry. Men are supposed to be kind, men are supposed to be servants. So why is it in our culture, men are cry men. Men are supposed to be kind, men are supposed to be servants. So why is it in our culture men are still being men?
Speaker 4:let's call it well, it's because you still have, I mean, you still have an enemy right.
Speaker 2:You have an enemy that that wishes to conflate the ego of men, I think, and so you have the andrew tates of the world, but that's but let me say this I don't want to cut you off, but that's kind of what I'm saying is is my, my thought process is I don't want to cut you off, but that's kind of what I'm saying is my thought process is I just don't want anyone that's listening to get this mixed up.
Speaker 2:I think what we're trying to say maybe I'm wrong and maybe we can have a cool little powwow here but is doing all those things that culture says that make you a man. There's nothing wrong with it. But the delusion is like what you're just saying right now is the understanding, truly, that those things don't define you as a man. It's actually because I don't ever want to release a message where people think that, especially here, because we dive a little deeper yeah, that we're speaking against those things that make men like taking your son on a deer hunting trip or something like that right, yeah, that's who we as individuals. Let's just not make sure that's what defines us.
Speaker 4:So me wanting to take Dom on a hunting trip or anything like that is no different than one of my best friends in the world wanting to take his 16-year-old son to Comic-Con. That doesn't make them less of a man than me, because they don't want to be in the woods when it's 10 degrees outside waiting on a deer to walk by. They would rather sit in a line for 18 hours to go watch Spider-Man, whatever it is at.
Speaker 3:Comic-Con. How about this? You have a daughter too, right? Yeah, so you want to take Dom on a hunting trip? Also, I'll take Jay too, mind you. What about you going with her to go see? I don't even know a movie that young girls would be into, but I don't even know a girl a movie that, like, young girls would be into. But you know, you, you going and spending time with your son in the woods, we're like, yeah, that's masculine. You going and do going to Disney on ice with your daughter is we're like that's not masculine.
Speaker 3:But you're going exactly because, it's not, doesn't fit the mold. You're going and being her dad, on her level and showing like that you love her and that you want it, like you're willing to give up your preference, you're willing to spend your time Like if you didn't have her, you would not be going to Disney on ice. Correct, probably, not Exactly, but you go in and you know you go in and doing something with your daughter that she loves and you're connecting with her Like that is just as masculine.
Speaker 4:And that is just as fatherly, if not more so, because it's a sacrifice for you. Yeah, 100, and I agree with that, and that that's the whole thing is like. I don't think there's anything wrong with lifting heavy weights or being really into strong man or any of those things, but I also don't think there's anything wrong with being a nerd. I mean, my entire left arm is a tattoo of star wars and I'm here for it. And when I went went to Disney and I built my own lightsaber, I freaking cried like a child building my own lightsaber.
Speaker 2:That doesn't make me any less a man than somebody who has a gun collection that they've spent $40,000 on Well, and it's because I've seen things right on Facebook and some other areas where you have peers and you know a guy has long hair, has a man bun. Because I've seen things right on Facebook and some other areas where you have peers and you know a guy has long hair, has a man bun. We make fun of him because that's not masculine. Yeah, but it's because of culturally, that's what you've adopted in your area of whatever, have you seen the pictures of the warriors from like the 1600s?
Speaker 4:Bro, I don't know if you guys know this. Yeah, I have an infatuation with samurai and they all had ponytails.
Speaker 2:Yes, but that's what I'm saying. Like in our culture, that's what we've said yeah, like literally somebody I know has said get that man bun off you, you're a man. Yeah, and this is somebody that's supposed to be a Christian.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm doing this very respectfully, but that makes me want to grow a man, bun, and then say fight me and let's say he's a man.
Speaker 2:I know that that's very not pastoral of me, but but but. But you know this is gonna sound like, but that's, that's how we all are. We're so simple-minded sometimes, and we're so we've. We want to view things through how we were raised, instead of stepping back and saying and we're listening too much to the culture that's that's the big thing for me.
Speaker 4:We're listening too much to the culture. That's the big thing for me. We're listening too much to the culture because for the last what five or six years, the big name when someone talks about being a man, the big name that gets thrown out is Andrew Tate, dear God. Yeah, he's an idiot and he's going to jail, but Andrew Tate has made a ton of money by this whole patriarchy man is I am man. Hear me roar Over half-truths by like this whole. Like patriarchy man is I am man. Hear me over half truths. And all and all he does is he talks with such confidence and he shows that he has a bunch of money. And so people say, oh well, that's what I have to have to be a man. And it's like no, you're seeing a success on social media that is facing prison charges, if i'm'm not mistaking. It's like you need to understand. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a man Prison charges for what?
Speaker 3:Let's talk about that For sex trafficking. Yeah, so this guy who is talking about basically, men are superior, like this is the way we're designed. He was using and abusing females and so like no wonder his sexist BS. Like no wonder he was like selling that, like he lived it. But what's happening?
Speaker 4:and this is why I like to talk about biblical masculinity is you don't have men willing to have these conversations and instead social media in the world that we're in, andrew Tate, is being pushed down your throat and that's being shoved at you saying saying this is what a man looks like. It's because it's half-truths.
Speaker 2:And I had a conversation one time at just a get-together and I had a female ask me she's like do you like Andrew Tate? I said to be honest with you, no. I said I love his drive. I said he's got drive, he's doing it for profit. I said, on top of that, the hypocrisy, I don't want a man teaching me how to be a man in my marriage, how to be all those things. Exactly what you just said, adam, it's just the sex trafficking or there's been abuse. I mean that's documented between them and their little party. But what I've learned is if I have to teach you how to be a man, and oftentimes in our culture for profit, it's usually because I'm trying to make you an alpha male and not really guard your heart, and I go after the things that are, that are, we would say, is Jesus talks about. You know, I don't. I don't remember Jesus telling the disciples hey, 6am run in the morning.
Speaker 3:We love to project that onto Jesus. You know, I've heard it talk that onto Jesus. I've heard it in messages where they're like, oh, he was a busy guy, he never took a break, he just constantly went, went, went, went. The way of Jesus is silence and solitude. Jesus would get up before it was light, go away to a solitary place and just pray, spend time with his Father. And we want to paint this grind onto Jesus. We want to paint him as this capitalistic alpha and say that's who jesus is like.
Speaker 3:And what we're trying, what we're doing, is we're making him an hour image instead of truly looking at the ways and practices of jesus, because they're very contrary to what we do. Yeah, who has time to get up and go spend two hours in silence? You know, I'm not talking about being super spiritual and going to your prayer closet every morning for two hours. Who has time just to go sit and, for lack of a better term, send to yourself, in the will of the Father, whether you're praying or just literally meditating. I'm not talking about the New Age, I'm talking about literally just going. Like Paul says, go and meditate on these things.
Speaker 4:Is it a?
Speaker 3:good, pure, holy, true and worthwhile. Yeah, that doesn't fit in our schedule, you know, because every day that you're sitting there being unproductive, rich Valotis speaks to this where he says I'm going to.
Speaker 4:This dude is not afraid to offend anybody. Rich Valotis yeah.
Speaker 3:And it's in his. I just read this book like two months ago. But basically he's like we're so shallowly formed that we respond dangerously. He's like everybody is shot and he's speaking specifically to the church. He's like we are shallowly formed, like it's a wide, it's a. It's a wide thing, not deep, and so we don't have any roots and I'm summarizing it best I can, but that's what he's talking. Like we, we don't have any roots and I'm summarizing it best I can, but that's what he's talking. Like we don't spend time like being formed, spiritual formation. We don't spend time, we don't spend time in the ways and practices of Jesus and so like we're formed more by the world.
Speaker 4:But that's what's always been happening, right, like I just got on social media because I wanted to find the other guy. I just got on social media because I wanted to find the other guy. But if you read through Paul's letters, a lot of what Paul is telling them is stop following the culture that is around you and center yourself back on the word and follow the example that you've already been given. Right, I mean, there are the Andrew Tates, and there's nothing wrong with some of these guys, like Jocko Willink or David Goggins. I love those guys.
Speaker 4:I listen to their podcasts, I read their books, but it's we hang our hats on those and we say this is the only form of a man that there is. And then when we see a weird guy that comes up on our feed, that's like we need to have 5 am prayer meetings where men are being empowered. There's a guy named Steve Weatherford. I don't know if you guys know that is or not. He was a punter in the NFL for years, gave his life to the Lord, and it's like on fire for the Lord that even sometimes, when I watch his stuff, you guys know those people that are like so on fire. You're like, okay, they're a little weird.
Speaker 1:You know those guys.
Speaker 4:But then when people see those guys, they're like he had me. Until I saw a video of him crying, praying over his kids. It's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no-transcript. But there's also nothing wrong with absolutely melting and crying. Last week, when we were getting ready for church, I we were like at the back, we get there an hour before everybody else. We're throwing a little football around me, jess and Dom and Sarah, our worship leader, is practicing and I went to throw Dom the ball and I look over and he has his eyes closed and his hands raised and he's just singing the song and I like melted, yeah, I was basically a puddle on the floor and Jess is like are you okay? I was like leave me alone, woman. It's over here blubbering.
Speaker 4:Okay, my seven-year-old son is in this place of worship and he's in a place of vulnerability and it's like it's okay for men to cry, it's okay for men to worship, it's encouraged, you should worship. But there's also like you need to understand that you can do the man's, man's things, but don't hang your hat on what culture says is a man and say that's the only thing that that does. That defines a man, cause what defines a man is the scripture.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay. So the book I was to remember earlier is called the deeply formed life by Rich Valotis. I highly, highly, highly highly recommend it. Can I, can I read a passage from scripture? It's a longer one, and then I'm going to like, then I'm going to read the little Like we're going to say, no, yeah. So this is one of the most commonly misused scriptures that I hear, especially when it comes to marriage. It's Ephesians 5. Oh, here we go, yeah, starting verse 21. It says submit to one another out of fear of God, or submit to one another out of reverence for God. This is talking to husbands and wives. Then it says wives, submit to your own husbands as to the Lord, for the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church. So many men like to stop there.
Speaker 4:Yes, submit to me woman. Yes, that's exactly it.
Speaker 3:The guys get the arrogant swag and you can feel the blood pressure rise in the room because you just told these wives to submit. But we've missed the point if we stop there. It says For the husband is the head of the wife, is also Christ's head of the church, and he is the Savior of the body. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands and everything. Husbands, love your wives. Just as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for her that he might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water, by the word, that he might present her to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she would be holy and without blemish, so husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself, for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church, for we are members of his body, of his flesh and of his bones. Anyway, we missed the point. It starts off by saying submit to one another. Now, when we go down here and read the little note and once again this is from the Orthodox Study Bible. Let's see. Okay, so this says the model is Christ in the church, which is then applied to marriage.
Speaker 3:Yet Christian marriage helps us to understand the mystery of the church. It says that sets the orthodox stance on it. It's like you're not submitting as an inferior, it's a submission as an equal. The next thing it says for husbands concerning sacrificial love, paul writes three sentences to wives, but writes at greater length to impress on husbands that they should love their wives, just as the wife's submission is to accept the headship of the husband and the husband's submission to his wife is to sacrifice himself for her. So he addresses the women first, but he's telling the husbands and it says love your wives as Christ loves the church. And then we hear that and think I can do whatever I want, as long as I tell my wife that I love her, as long as I don't sleep with other people and then buy her roses every now and then, I've done my job and we've completely missed the point. Because if we look at it like, jesus laid down his life for us before he ever asked us to give our life to him.
Speaker 4:His preference was us, yes, our well-being.
Speaker 3:He allowed himself Like he's king of the universe he's God, allowed himself like he's king of the universe, he's God. And he allowed himself to be subjected by evil forces for the sake of union with us. And here's the thing Paul says it was our blindness. The cross did not change God. The cross changed us. Come on, god is incapable of change. Jesus Christ. The same yesterday, today, forevermore.
Speaker 3:The cross was not to appease an angry father. The cross was to destroy our blindness. It was to absorb the worst that we could give and then still win in the end. But anyway, he sacrificed himself for the sake of union with us. He showed us what it looks like to lay down our life. Pastor Casey Doss says this. He says Jesus didn't go to the cross, so you didn't have to. He went to the cross to show you how. And as husbands and fathers, we need to remember that. We can read this passage and be like well, my wife's not submitting to me, are you submitting to her? Are you showing her what that submission looks like? Because if we're to truly follow the example of Christ, we're to live a self-sacrificial, other-centered love that's willing to lay down our own life when the other party's, not when the other party's still blinded.
Speaker 4:Isn't the Greek word agape? Isn't that one of the Greek words for love, that is, other-centered love?
Speaker 3:yes, but specifically in this, the idea, like on the inverse side of this, it says I will not sin against you when you sin against me. And we see that all the time in marriages where it's like, well, I'm going to get even, I'm going to make sure I get mine, I'm going to make sure I don't get hurt again, I'm going to make sure I don't get hurt again, I'm going to make sure that I don't get taken advantage of. But the point of it is is you're supposed to lay down your life for the other person. That's what it means to love your wife as Christ loved the church. And it's scary to read that. I remember when I was processing that, like less than a year into marriage, can I say kind of an off-color word, just to be raw and real yes absolutely so.
Speaker 3:I was 25 years old, trying to figure. You know, I got two weeks into marriage and first off I read like every book I reread Wild at Heart. You know, I tried to prepare. And then I'm like two weeks into marriage and I realized I don't know crap.
Speaker 3:And I was talking with a kind of sharing my story a little bit with another guy in the church and was basically just trying to share my testimony, like just to say hey, like nobody's perfect because he's like not everybody has a perfect marriage like you and Emily. I was like buddy, you have no idea, you don't know, you have no. But anyway, like my fear was that I'd read this passage and I was deeply convicted by it. But where I was fighting against it was like what if? What if she never loves me back the same way Like she? You know she loves me as her husband? What if she never shows me the love Sorry, like what? What if it's just constantly me submitting myself to her? And I was like what if this makes me her bitch?
Speaker 3:Like, once again, I don't say that to be like crass or to be provocative that was literally the fear in my mind and why I was fighting against scripture was because, realistically, this might get me taken advantage of, I might end up being a henpecked shell of a man. That that was my fear, and you know. Thankfully, god didn't look at me and be like, well, you're an idiot and just leave me there, you know. And so, once again, please excuse that, that, that that language. Like I said that and I know there are other men that feel that same way where it's like, what if my wife's not submitting to me? Well, first off, what does that submission mean? For, first off, are you, are you truly loving her the way that she deserves to be loved, the way that God calls you to love her, regardless of how she loves you back?
Speaker 4:What to love her, regardless of how she loves you back? What if we ask the question keep, don't, don't lose your train of thought. But what if we, in turn?
Speaker 3:just ask the question.
Speaker 4:Well are you fully submitted to christ, correct? What is she?
Speaker 3:submitting to yes and sorry, keep going. Oh, you know you're fine. And once again, like we go back to. What the orthodox says is like this is submission as equals, not as an inferior to a superior. This is as equals and it comes in response to you showing what it looks like to lay your life down for her, your hobbies, your career, your, your, your manly things. That we're talking about. Culture says makes you a man, and it's not saying you can't hunt. It's not saying you can't go play softball. It's not saying you can't go play golf and all these others. It's not. It's not it at all. But when it comes down to it, are you willing to lay down everything for the sake of unity with your wife?
Speaker 4:Go ahead, can I just share?
Speaker 3:this. Yeah, it was about a year and a half journey and a lot of it was my fear to where? And Emily was a wonderful wife back even then. But it transitioned to a place to where now she's an example for me. But it transitioned to a place to where, like now, she's an example for me. And it transitioned to a place to where I look at her and I'm like I don't deserve her. But God took me from that place of fear to like what if I lose every bit of who I am? Well, come to find out I needed to lose a lot of who I am.
Speaker 3:And marriage I know we're talking about masculinity, but I feel like this needs to be said and once again I'm going to quote pastor casey dawes. I don't know if it's an original quote or something where he, he read it somewhere else, but like he, he, he said that marriage is martyrdom and he's not saying that. He's not saying marriage is death, but marriage is. Marriage is making you like christ. Yeah, marriage, is you dying to yourself for the sake of another? Marriage, is you not getting your way all the time? But it's a sacrament, as this said, because it helps us understand the mystery of the church.
Speaker 4:Should it not actually be, in fact, you not trying to get your way?
Speaker 3:Yes, it's putting your preferences second for the sake of your spouse.
Speaker 4:I mean read this again. I'm going to read this one more time because we're talking to men. Obviously, women listen to this podcast too, and there's probably going to be a lot of husbands that get sent this episode and then they're going to be mad at us because they feel like their wife is attacking them because of us. But I'm here for it, bring all the smoke, I'm ready.
Speaker 4:But it says husbands, love your wives, as Christ loves the church and gave up himself for her. We could stop there, but if you keep reading, he gives you an example of why that happens that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. What he is telling husbands to do is he is telling husbands to love their wives in such a way that he can lead her to holiness through his sacrifice. That's what he's telling them to do, like you should lay yourself aside and lead in such a way that you are sanctifying and getting your wife to holiness because you are leading her in such a way that you are doing exactly as Christ, and then, on the other side of that, like you be willing when you see that same example in her, you be willing to be sanctified yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:In the same way, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. And again, we could get into what love looks like. Love is not just bringing your wife flowers and saying I love you before you go to bed. That is not love. Love is a sacrifice. Yes, you know, and here's our random book plug. We always have one. We always have a random book plug in these podcasts.
Speaker 4:But if you've never read the five love languages, I encourage everybody to do it, because I was in that place early on in my marriage too, where I felt like I was loving my wife well, but my wife was telling me that she didn't feel like I loved her, like we've gotten to a place in our marriage. This was about year two. That's normally the hangup for couples. I feel like that second. You know, first year you're in the honeymoon phase. Second year of real life hits and you're like, oh boy, what did I do?
Speaker 4:But what I learned is I was loving my wife the way that I receive love, and so I was putting my preferences out there and I was like I don't understand why you don't realize that I love you. I'm doing this for you, I'm doing this for you. And then she told me how she receives love and I was like, oh yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, your love language is not physical touch, right, your love language is acts of service. So the fact that you came home and the sink is full of dishes, the kitchen's a mess and there's dirty laundry everywhere, now you feel like I didn't serve you today, yeah, and so I think that, just in the sense of marriage, as a husband, you should look for ways actively to serve your wife every day.
Speaker 3:Learn how to speak their language. We were very, very similar. I had a very time-consuming job, and so it was a good paying job. So Emily's love language is quality time, and so it's like I could buy her nice things. My love language is words of affirmation. That's what most guys are. Yeah, I would encourage, I would say the nicest you know, I would try to build her up every way possible, but it was literally speaking a different language. But going back to what you said, corey, that's a shallow love when we're not saying what you were doing, but when we, like, we only want to give what we want to receive. And because we refuse to, because we refuse to try to understand what they need, what they want, her language, it would be very easy to be blinded by our own selfishness, by our own immaturity, and saying, well, I'm loving them, I'm buying nice things, I'm doing nice things, I'm saying nice things, I'm being faithful, and yet they don't feel loved. They're just crazy.
Speaker 3:No we're being immature, as paul would say. Like that first passage you said grow up, act like a man, like, learn how to love your wife the way that she needs to be loved. Yeah, don't like. Don't act like a you know, like a toddler when they think that because they can't see you, you can't see them, you know I can tell you guys off record one of the funniest stories about a little kid playing peekaboo with my brother.
Speaker 4:That kid's like 17 now, but it was hilarious when she was two.
Speaker 3:That's the thing, like we have that mindset of, because you know, that's just one thing. Another thing that's an aspect of a toddler that unfortunately, a lot of men don't grow out of is, we think, because we understand it, the other person understands it.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know. And so we think, because it's in my head and I grasp it, everybody else should too, and that's the aspect of a toddler, and we don't grow up. But so we think, like we don't think that we need to communicate what's going on in our head and we don't think that we need to learn how to process things the way that they process. And so we get stuck in this blindness where we think, well, she's just crazy, you know, or she, like you said, corey, how does she not see that I love her? It's because we're speaking our language, we're not speaking theirs.
Speaker 2:I'd say you know, love has to be accompanied with sacrifice. Has to be. Has to be Like it's in everything From the elementary view is I'm crazy about you. I'm going to marry you in the dating phase. You would sacrifice everything. I'd sacrifice plans with friends.
Speaker 4:I would throw my Xbox controller out the window to spend time with Jess and we were exactly because you knew that's what you wanted, but it required sacrifice and it never stops you know, but then once we get in the marriage, we stopped that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then we demand instead of serve. I mean it goes back to servanthood and, like service, requires sacrifice. There's no ifs, ands or buts about it. Sometimes it's easier than other times, but it's sacrifice. But that's also sacrifice for our wives. Yeah Right, they have to sacrifice in moments of time, just like we would, and it works. Sacrifice it's what finishes the unity, it's what finishes everything. God could have brought Jesus any other way and took him any other way, but he chose sacrifice because it's the ultimate. No greater love than a man that would lay his own life down for his brother right? Sacrifice Everything's sacrifice.
Speaker 4:So that's actually what I was about to say is because there's probably also men who are listening to this that aren't married and they're like well, how does that relate to me? Well, that relates to you, in that you should still live your life so submitted to Christ, that you are an active servant in your community, in your church, in your family. Like you should be actively finding ways to serve others well, and it should be a sacrificial service is what it should be.
Speaker 2:And the reward. There's such a reward to the sacrifice, like your marriage is incredible when you learn to sacrifice your relationship with the Lord.
Speaker 3:Even if that reward never comes, it doesn't change that call Correct A hundred percent, but it'll come one day.
Speaker 4:Yes absolutely Right. But even if it doesn't right, that's a whole like, that's almost like the Hebrew boys mentality of like I'm going to do the right thing and even if it doesn't work out the way that, I hope it does.
Speaker 4:Even if God doesn't deliver, I'm still not bowing Right and we could get into manhood there too, in the sense of like being willing to stand for what's right Even when society will will just rake you through the coals for it. Like Ruslan in that in the Ruslan KD I've listened y'all. I've really gotten attached to him recently. But Right there what you just said, sorry.
Speaker 3:I just stuttered like crazy. But what you just said being willing to stand for God and or stand for what's right, and how do we do that through the lens of Jesus? Because once we had this discussion I say discussion I made a post on Facebook a few months ago. Oh boy, you did it. Oh Lord, these people went ballistic. I think John was a part of it too.
Speaker 3:But one of the lines he said we have to take a stand for what's right, we have to stand for God. And I was like, okay, when we see Jesus stand against sin, it's on a cross. Like how do we stand for what's right as Christian men who follow the example of Jesus? And we want to go cleanse the temple, right, we don't want to go to the cross, we don't want to take the beating, we don't want to be willing to look weak, we want to go flex, pound our chest and say like we want to go enforce our morals on people in entirely unchristlike ways. If you look at the Pharisees, they had pretty good morals. Now, a lot of those people. I say morals, they had a lot of good tensions.
Speaker 4:They stood on code. I mean they stood on biblical code and biblical principles.
Speaker 3:I thought you were about to say they stood on business. Can't tell us that, but that's the thing was like they wanted to follow the law, but they were going to enforce that law, even if it meant killing the person who wasn't willing to follow it. Yeah, they were going to brutally beat you into submission to make you follow the law, and that's not what we see Sounds like modern churches.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but we see Jesus who would rather die than kill his enemy. We see Jesus who's willing to look weak, who's not just look weak, he's willing to be weak. We love talking about the line of Judah roaring right and there are principles of that. But the only time Jesus called the line of Judah is in the book of Revelation, and they're like who's worthy to go? And he says and I look, nobody was, and he was weeping. And then somebody spoke and said you know, fear not, for the Lion of Judah has triumphed. And he says and then I look and behold a bleeding lamb, as if it's been slaughtered. So when the Bible calls Jesus the Lion of Judah, the picture it paints is a bleeding lamb. And so Jesus was fully the lion on the cross. That was his strength. So when Paul's speaking, he says God's strength is made perfect in our weakness. It's because his strength is weakness to the ways of the world.
Speaker 4:When I think about standing up for what is right, I think a whole lot less about a Facebook post and I think a whole lot more about a lifestyle choice. This is about to be really corny, but there was an old song that was called Life Song.
Speaker 2:Who sang that?
Speaker 4:song, life Song, yeah, but there's something about that, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, as corny as that is grounds or new song.
Speaker 4:No, it was the people who sang, isn't it the same people that sang? I can only imagine who sang that song mercy me, but it's not mercy me, you're.
Speaker 3:It's the guy like a 1990s rock either way, I think it was Creed.
Speaker 4:Yeah, give me a second I'll attack the Google machine, but there is something about the idea of no one cares.
Speaker 3:I bet it's Phillips, craig and Dean.
Speaker 4:No one cares what you have to say until they see what you truly believe in how you carry yourself. You know what I mean Casting crowns.
Speaker 2:Oh, I did Listen, bro, grew my faith.
Speaker 4:They're corny, but praise you in this storm. They grew your faith, huh, but there is something about letting your life speak for itself, and for me to stand up for what is right is to live out the gospel message of Christ and love people with a sacrificial love, even if they aren't willing to return it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know, like when I think about our church and I listen I'm ready for all the heat, because Jess and I have said that we want to be a church where people who are in an active, sin filled lifestyle can come and know that they will be met with love. Now I don't want them to stay there, right? I think that there is something about the Holy Spirit that should be changing you, but I want to spend a whole lot less time beating people over the head with their sin, a whole lot more time loving people to the presence of God and letting the love of God change what needs to change. Yeah, for me, that's what it looks like to take a stand for what is right.
Speaker 4:It's a whole lot less about how loud can I roar and how mean can I make a Facebook post and how many comments can I leave on your post about what you believe, and how many times can I tell you that that picture is raunchy and you need to take believe? And how many times can I tell you that that picture is raunchy and you need to take it down? Or how many times can I report you for this or that. It's a whole lot less about those things and a whole lot more about me living out what Jesus did. Jesus got to know people. Jesus spent time with sinners. That's just what he did. Now, did he tell them that they were living a lifestyle? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Maybe he just had dinner with them and loved on them, and then they wanted to know what it was that they could do different.
Speaker 4:It's not recorded in scripture that he did Right and people would obviously say well, it's not recorded that he did it either. Yeah, that he didn't what specifically?
Speaker 2:That he didn't tell them that they were living in sin. He did though, and one of them, one of them one time, the lady at the well way the well. That's the only thing I can really say is but even then, look at how he did it.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, he did it with a in a tender way. It wasn't like a yeah, you, you've been a hoe. We all know that.
Speaker 3:Stop being a hoe yeah, he didn't begin with that either. Yeah right, he didn't, he didn't start there, yeah, and so I I think, and can we, can we point something else out also in that, like jesus went out of his way to meet her, he broke the billy graham rule, like, in fact, he sent. He sent his disciples away to go. Wait by a well, in the heat of the day, yeah, to talk to an adulterous young man.
Speaker 4:Listen to this if you're single, do not wait at a well in the heat of the day to talk to an adulterous woman. A young man. Listen to this. If you're single, do not wait at a well for a promiscuous woman.
Speaker 3:Right, but even in the way that he said it was. He said go get your husband. And she said I don't have a husband. He said you're right, and he goes you've had five husbands and the one you're living with now is not your husband, Isn't your husband? Yeah, so you know he did call it out, but it's not the way that we would. It's not the way we do it now. But my favorite is Zacchaeus. He comes up to him and says hey, I'm coming to your house to eat tonight. He just says I'm coming to your house to eat tonight and then literally goes and spends time with him. You never hear an altar call, you never hear a conviction, so to speak. Everybody's like. So you're saying Jesus condones sin. No, I'm not saying that at all. But we see Zacchaeus not only repent but then vow to give back what he stole More than what he stole.
Speaker 3:Jesus says salvation's come to your house today. That's a whole other topic for a whole other podcast, but like that I've already said that phrase I was about to say it turns it upside down. The way that he handled Zacchaeus, who is a political traitor, a national traitor, a thief, a robber, a scumbag, organized crime. He was a representative of the empire.
Speaker 4:I mean, there's a person just like that who ended up being a disciple, exactly Wrote the first book of the New Testament.
Speaker 3:It's like come on. And Jesus comes to him and just comes by Levi and says follow me. He doesn't say, hey, let's get rid of this crap. I don't agree with what you're doing. Like he just comes and says, follow me.
Speaker 2:He doesn't say hey, you're a freaking traitor Because we have such a religious view of sin. Right yeah, like something biblically right. You treat people with sin like leprosy. Jesus walked through the leprosy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Jesus touched the leprosy.
Speaker 2:It's about perspective of like we say, yeah, they're human but they're wrapped up in sin, and we don't say that. But that's how we treat things. Some people say it. True, there's the extremes, but there's the people that go to church every day, that we would call good and they're lost. But we treat sin from a religious perspective that we can't get near it. Jesus' main issue was not to meet with somebody to confront their sin. It's for them to confront their identity and what they're missing out on. It's all about perspective and how we've got to change it. Man.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there are better things for you is kind of the mentality right. You're living below your value. Yeah, and because of this thing called sin.
Speaker 2:That doesn't really faze me. I mean, that's it. Sin does not phase god like I. That doesn't mean god wants to dance around and sin, right, but it just means it doesn't. It doesn't phase him, that's. You don't want to get me into halloween stuff, but dear god, but, anyways, talk about little christology yeah, yeah, yeah, we did, we talked about that, then we I had, so we're not gonna get into the final note. We're getting a little long on this episode and I'm here for it.
Speaker 4:We can probably keep going, but we don't need to.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll just start and then I'll let one of y'all close out and pray us out. But just think, first off, thank you guys, for if you're in this far, this means you've listened to us. We appreciate you more than you know. We I will say this we're three men that have callings on our life. We know that, just like any of everybody that's listening, has a calling on their life. And we're still learning. We're still growing as young men, all in our mid-30s I'm getting on the upper end of that. But we're thankful for our community and people and you know we want to hear feedback. If you got some feedback, we're all for it.
Speaker 2:But also new topics, new talk about. But with this in particular, I think it's, the highlight for me is just understanding that we're living out our DNA as men. But let's make sure that we don't have a diluted view of masculinity and don't allow culture to dictate what a man is. Let the Bible, through the image of Christ, through walking like Jesus, be the definition. How was Jesus manly? And I think that's where we'll find our answer on how we should walk us out every day.
Speaker 4:It's okay to follow your desires right. To be honest with you, I love working out, but I'm not sure that they lifted weights in the New Testament. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Paul said, physical exercise doesn't have much profit.
Speaker 4:So it's like I mean. In Proverbs it says that only a fool runs without something chasing them. You know what I mean. So it's like.
Speaker 2:Paul was writing his letters in Cheetos.
Speaker 4:So they had a different view on fitness and all of these things, and I love fitness. Adam loves to hunt. Johnny, I know you like to hunt too. It's like it's OK to do all those things, but it's also OK if you like Pokemon cards or whatever it is that you like. It's okay to like those things. Let the Bible define what it means to be a man, and where we focused our time today was that, first of all, to be a man, you have to be a servant. You have to serve and love well those that are in your house.
Speaker 3:So my wrap-up is this pretty much To be a man, you've got to eat your steak rare, drink your coffee black. Come on, no, I'm just messing.
Speaker 4:I do like my steak rare, and when I drink coffee I like it black, so I'm a man, according to Adam I like coffee in any form it comes in, but I do not like hot coffee.
Speaker 3:That's gotten cold, isn't that weird? Yes, yes, I'll drink ice coffee, I'll drink cold brew, but if it started as hot coffee, it better like it's getting on before.
Speaker 2:My toxic masculinity says I don't care if it's. If it's cold and it was hot at one time, that cup will be finished I'll drink it, I just don't like it.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's awful it when it gets. I poured out, so I'm not a man.
Speaker 4:Then wow out what that's wasteful adam, but no serve. Well, start there when you think about being a man. Learn to love, and love through servanthood. Let's start there. Don't lose who you are. Don't feel like you gotta you know.
Speaker 3:Start hunting with weights and take steroids, serve well and love well and and be willing to do that regardless of what the end reward is Though the reward is there, but, just like John was saying, like talking about doing stuff for profit. If the only reason that we do things is for the reward that's coming, then what's our motive? Love your wife the way that God calls you to love her, regardless of how she loves you back, but the promise is that she'll see a worthy person there. Come on, it's your responsibility to love her first, and in return you will see somebody that you do not deserve. That's good. How can you expect God to work in their life if you're not willing to let him work in your life?
Speaker 3:Boy Adam's trying to go back on the attack here, Let me say this too Love your kids the way that God calls you to love your kids, regardless of how they love you back. That one can be one of the more hurtful things, more so than a spouse, even.
Speaker 4:Me and my brother say this my kids cannot love me the way that I love them. That's not their job. It is my job to love them as their father. It is not their job to reciprocate that love. It is my job to teach my son how to one day love his wife the way that I love his mother and love his children the way that I love him. He cannot reciprocate the love that I have for him. He can't. That's not his job.
Speaker 3:I know we're trying to wrap this up, but I do want to say one more thing, one thing just from sorry, john, you can edit this out, but no, like. One thing that I remember from my childhood was my dad could not wait to say something that his dad had said to him and basically, like dad had done something stupid, I can't remember what it was and his dad said son, do you think that I talk just to hear my head roar? Which, honestly, that's probably some good wisdom, but like, honestly, that's probably some good wisdom. But dad could not wait to use that, me being the very literal person I was, I was probably like six or seven and dad had told me not to do something. And I did it. And he said, son, do you think I talk just to hear my head roar? And it utterly confused me. Later that night, going to bed, I asked him. I said, dad, no, he said do you think I talk just to hear my head rattle?
Speaker 3:And then, later that night, going to bed, I asked dad. I said dad, does your head really rattle when you talk? And it's, like you know, the point was completely missed. He was in a hurry to say that because it meant a lot to him. You know.
Speaker 3:It did something, made him feel a certain kind of way, and my wife and I were talking about this the other day, about our daughter, and it's like I'm not worried about driving that point home. I want her to understand and I want I want to begin this as early as possible that there's absolutely nothing she can do that would make me stop loving her. Yeah, and if more dads were focused on not like I'm not the perfect dad, far from it but if there were more dads who are more concerned with making sure their kids knew that there's no way that they could ever stop loving them, I think the world would be a better place and I think kids would be less outcome centered yes, absolutely right now, a lot of kids are in a place where they feel like they have to perform for their dad to love them, and that's a sad place.
Speaker 3:And instead of trying, because they don't want to risk the rejection, they they don't perform.
Speaker 4:Yeah, boys, that's a whole nother topic. We won't get there today. You want me to pray, mm-hmm? All right, let's pray, god. Thank you for today. God, thank you for everything that I learned today. Thank you for opening our eyes. God, I pray that this message would land on fertile ground. God, I pray that those who are listening, or those who will listen, will listen with an open heart, will listen with an open mind, god, not listen with ears hoping to be offended, because if they listen that way, then they'll find it. God, we just want men to follow the example given in Scripture by our ultimate example of Jesus, and we want to live like you, we want to serve like you and we want to change the world like you did. God, I pray that you would just be with us, continue to help us grow, continue to help us lead and serve well In Jesus name Amen.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 4:Thanks guys.
Speaker 1:Thank you, guys for joining us here at the we Are Alliance podcast. We're so thankful that you have spent some time with us. Hopefully you have been encouraged. Hopefully you feel like your faith has grown a little bit more. That is our heart, that is our intent is to see you get closer to Jesus and become that reflected image Again. If you want to partner with us, we'd love your financial support. Check out the bio. There'll be a link for our PayPal, because we can't do this without your continued prayers and support, so please consider that. Hey, you have an incredible rest of your week and we hope to see you back here on the next episode. Thank you,