We Are Lions Ministry: The Lions Den
We Are Lions Ministry: The Lions Den
Transcending Partisan Politics with Love
Unlock the secret to maintaining unity and love even amidst heated political debates, with Corey, Adam, and John Boy leading the charge. What if the biblical command to love our neighbors, including those with opposing political views, could transform the way we engage with politics? This episode challenges our perceptions, addressing the intersection of faith and politics, stressing that disagreement on hot-button issues like abortion and marriage doesn't translate into labeling others as evil. We promise to guide you through the complexities of political hypocrisy and Christian nationalism, offering insights into how relying on political parties as moral compasses can detract from Christ-like values.
Join our candid conversation about the importance of voting based on personal convictions rather than party lines. We explore the notion that political systems are temporary and how ultimate faith belongs not in politicians but in the enduring kingdom of God. Navigate the pressure of the two-party system and discover why love should transcend divisive political rhetoric. Hear our call to create a welcoming church environment grounded in the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount, advocating for societal betterment through unity and understanding, regardless of political affiliation. Whether you're wrestling with the tension between faith and politics or striving for a more loving and inclusive community, this episode offers a pathway forward.
Hey everyone, welcome to the we Are Lions podcast presented by Corey, adam and John, the Lion Crew. We are so thankful that you have decided to join us today, or if you've joined us in the past, thank you, thank you, thank you. Your continued support and prayers mean a lot to us. We also want you to engage with us. Please email us at wearelionsministry at gmailcom. We'd love to discuss topics or ways you can get involved with us in our ministry. We love putting this podcast out to help people grow their faith and understand how truly they are loved by a good, good father. So again, thank you, guys, for joining us. This is the start of season two, so we're so excited to get rolling with this, but I do encourage you, go check out the several episodes that we have already put out. Hey guys, again, thank you, let's get into the episode. What's up everyone? Welcome back to another episode of the Lion's Den we are Lions Podcast. We've got Adam, we've got Corey, we've got me, john Boy.
Speaker 2:John.
Speaker 1:Boy, we're going to be alive.
Speaker 2:John Boy and Billy.
Speaker 3:Wasn't that like an old?
Speaker 2:radio show.
Speaker 1:No, they're still around, dude, are they really yeah?
Speaker 3:It's John.
Speaker 1:Man, now is it john man and william. But welcome, welcome, welcome, continuing on with season two. I have no idea what episode number this is, but we got a pretty cool topic today hot button, at least very hot button, with things coming up in november. I'm not going to say a specific time now, because if it takes three months, then the election will be here. Just make this one the next episode we put out we just said election because we really want to talk about politics faith and politics, I guess, or whatever you want to title this, but politics, and we may not have enough time. This might be a two-parter. This might be a two-parter. We'll get started with it today Because I don't know which.
Speaker 1:We're all pretty close in here. I know how Adam, me and Adam talk a lot, probably more than me and Corey talk, just because our lives me and Adam run the same circle. We actually work together I was about to say, and you guys work together. So you know, I know Adam's thoughts a lot on politics and everything else, but it isn't about opinions about politics. It's about our faith in politics and what we're currently seeing and what we feel. And again, everyone I think even listening to us is not going to agree, because I think politics have got such a stronghold in our society that we make it a part of our faith and that's that whole separation between church and state mindset right of. I think you have to separate it and I think I need to probably unpack that context, but I don't think it's needed right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so here's what I want to lead with. We're going to talk about politics today, absolutely yeah, we're here for that, but what I want to make sure you all understand is never, ever, let politics be a source of division with people that you love. What I mean by that is there are people, probably in your circle, that are going to vote differently than you in this upcoming election, and you don't have to agree with them. You don't have to understand why they're going to vote. The way that they vote does not change the fact that they are someone that you care about and that you love deeply, and you should not let the fact that they vote differently than you change the fact that you love them.
Speaker 3:Can I take that a step further? Yeah, go so. In scripture, Jesus tells us to love our neighbor. In the old covenant, they were told to love their neighbor, and then the neighbor was defined as a member of the children of Israel. Right, Jesus said who's your neighbor? Like it's anyone nearest. I would take that challenge even further. Do not let politics affect who you love. In general, as followers of Christ, you're called to love your enemy. You don't have the right to have enemies, but if there's somebody that considers you an enemy, it's your responsibility to love them. And so I would take that a step further. You know how like we use the comparison of like. Grace is the higher standard under grace. Like. If we allow politics to bring hate in our heart towards our brother or sister, we're sinning. We're here.
Speaker 2:I love it, we are, we're here. I love it, we are, we are here.
Speaker 1:Well, I think too, you know, we need to clear the air on this. Like, I think the one thing I think about politics is we've got hot buttons, We've got abortion right, we've got, you know, just marriage as far as gay marriage and stuff. These are real topics that we know are intertwined with policies and everything that whatever administration brings into things. But for the context of this, I think it's true to say you know, I can disagree with you wholeheartedly and still not think you're evil. I can think that you know you stand for abortion and I don't. Obviously I don't, I don't have a right to say we're evil. You know I might have the right to physically say I think you're blinded, but in reality, how much am I blinded to other things in my own life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you can also word that, as it's not a knock on you. I just disagree with that policy.
Speaker 1:Well, it seems. I think we're so and you use really good words sometimes, like we're, our theology is so impoverished, or how we love creation is so impoverished, yeah, if I can say that correctly, like when you make that opening statement about how we still got to love people. I think extreme people that have an impoverished mindset towards creation, they take that and go well, we can't just, it's that whole. Well, we can't just stand by. I can love that person, but it doesn't mean I'm going to stand by and let them stand for abortion. It's like well, wait a minute.
Speaker 3:I feel like that's what we've entered into in our worlds now, because we think God needs us to stand for him when he's already conquered the world.
Speaker 2:I heard somebody say one time God does not need you to be his defense attorney. Correct, god is not on trial and you are not his attorney. We need a little organ over here.
Speaker 3:Don't do it Listen.
Speaker 2:I tell Sarah, the girl who does our music for us, I'm like if you don't stop playing while I'm preaching, then I'm going to preach forever. So you're not allowed to play while I preach.
Speaker 1:I feel like we can go on a lot of trails.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot of rabbit trails that we can go on, so this might be part two, because I know this happens.
Speaker 1:I was thinking on it, trying to just study, like what do you talk about other than? I? Don't want to just give personal opinion on everything, but it's just like some of the questions I even have. You know, how much do Christians get involved in politics? Because you think about then, talking about in Jesus' time, and you think about now. The Israelites didn't really have a government they could interject in.
Speaker 3:Right, they had a theocracy yes, correct.
Speaker 3:So where now? But in the time of Jesus it was still a theocracy in the grand scheme, but you had set different divisions in it. Yeah, even in the religious sphere where you had the Pharisees and the Sadducees, part of the things you see within them in the Sanhedrin was their divisions, like even the question where they're trying to trap Jesus and like which is the greatest commandment? And really that's because one side was saying the greatest commandment was love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, strength and mind. And the next one was saying love your neighbor as you love yourself, and so they're trying to get him to take sides, neighbor as you love yourself, and so they're trying to get him to take sides, and he's basically like they together are the great commandment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they are the same. Yes, one thing if it's cool, I know, corey, you let us off. One thing I think we need to clarify like the gospel is political, and so it's funny to me, like when preachers are like just preach Jesus, don't preach politics, and you absolutely should not have a partisan political message from the stage. There we go. But the gospel in and of itself is a proclamation of the kingdom of God and the kingdom is a political term. Jesus preached political themes. Now, it wasn't Republican Democrat, it wasn't the political in our sense, it wasn't American politics, it wasn't modern politics Right, but his announcement modern politics.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:But his announcement of ministry was political. And what's funny is when you preach his announcement of ministry, I got told I sounded woke one time because his was good news to the poor. And it's like, oh, when we look at Jesus, the rich young ruler comes to Jesus and he said, what must I do to inherit eternal life? And he's like you got to keep the commandments. He's like I do. And then Jesus says OK, well then sell all of your possessions and give them to the poor. And he says like he walks away saddened.
Speaker 3:Jesus did not correct him by saying this Actually, you don't keep all the commandments. You have a God before me. You have an idol before me. What he did was he asked him a question that revealed his idol. And when we hear a message from the gospel and it riles our political feathers because it sounds woke or because it goes against whatever ideology you have, that is an indictment that that is now our idol, that that is the thing that we place in front of God. And Jesus is a gentleman. He's not going to sit there and call you out. He'll follow that example of, he'll reveal that idol.
Speaker 3:But the fact of the matter is, is that we view Jesus through the lens of our politics, not our politics through the lens of Jesus. But the gospel in itself is political. You cannot separate the two. What it is not is it is not partisan. We see them trying to not trap Jesus in it, but I can't remember exactly who it is.
Speaker 3:But they come to Jesus asking, like wanting to follow him, and he says the bird of the air has a nest and the fox has a hole, but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head. And that is a two-sided statement, basically saying like, if you're going to be a part of my kingdom, he's like I'm not about earthly riches, I'm not about building a palace, I'm not about this stuff. But what he's talking about specifically is the bird of the air, that's the empire of Rome and the fox was Herod, symbolizing two political forces of the day. And basically he's saying my kingdom doesn't fit in either one of these, like you're not going to follow me. And then we're going to be Roman, you're not going to follow me, and we're going to be the Jewish manifestation of the Messiah. So if you could imagine in today and I'm not trying to read something into it, that's not there but if you can imagine somebody saying I want to follow you and he says you sure about that, because I don't wear a donkey or an elephant.
Speaker 2:I don't wear a MAGA hat.
Speaker 3:Correct, yeah, and so we have to understand that the gospel is political, but it's not partisan and it's not going to fit neatly into the Republican box or the Democrat box. It's not and here's the other thing, the mistake I've made in the past, just being raw, honest and real.
Speaker 1:I like it, bring it.
Speaker 3:And I see a lot of people make like I consider myself pretty moderate, and so we think like we see the issues in people trying to make the gospel Republican, and then we see the issues in people trying to make the gospel Democratic and we're like it's not either of those. So therefore it must be moderate or we'll say I'm going to be completely apolitical. We can't just bury our head in the sand, but we have to understand the gospel is political but not partisan.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Matt Chandler in a podcast with Lecrae listen y'all. I've been on podcasts like crazy lately, but Matt Chandler in a podcast with Lecrae, he was quoting NT Wright, I believe, and he was talking about politics and he said here's what we have to understand about Hang on.
Speaker 3:Chandler quoted NT Wright.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That don't even make sense in my world.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you it was wild. You should go listen to it. Matt Chandler with Lecrae their podcast so good, very convicting as well. So be ready for your toes to be stepped on. But he said this. He said the reason that the kingdom of God does not fit into our partisan politics is because neither party is fully kingdom. Here's what he means by that.
Speaker 2:In today's American politics, the conservative right likes to claim King Jesus. They like to claim Jesus as king. But when you start pushing them on kingdom issues, such as social injustice or all of these other kingdom issues how to deal with the poor, how to deal with these things they will immediately kind of shut you down because that's not what they want to talk about. So they are about the king, not about the kingdom. Then you have the other side of the parties the far left, the liberal leading Democrats will say we are all about the kingdom, we're all about inclusivity, we're all about this, we're all about that.
Speaker 2:But then when you ask them to say but we need you to claim that Jesus is king, they're like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We don't want to go that far yet. So they want to be about kingdom business without claiming Jesus as king. So you have one side claiming him as king without wanting to be about his business. You have the other side wanting to be about his business without claiming him to be his king. And we have to understand that the kingdom of God transcends American politics because it doesn't fit either of those boxes. Jesus is king and Jesus is about the kingdom business and we have to be willing to understand that.
Speaker 1:See and the danger and I 100% agree with that. That's good, corey, willing to understand that, seeing the danger like and I 100 agree, that's good, cory. Hypocrisy is, is, is the, is the, is the silent killer and and this whole thing right like toby flenderson is the silent killer.
Speaker 3:You guys if you don't watch the office, I'm sorry I've never gotten past season one, but it's, it's, it's.
Speaker 1:We want to point our fingers at just simple things of one party or the other, but in reality, the other party is is a hypocrite in so many other ways, and hypocrisy has no place in the kingdom. And so it's like what are we doing as individuals to say, you know, I, I stand for kingdom principles, which I know falls in a lot of policies that and a lot of policies that. But the matter of fact, though, is we put so much faith in our politicians that are. It depends on what day they wake up, and what the media says is what their stance is on things. One day they're Christian to get the evangelical support, then the next one they're not. And so, if you are right-leaning, I am right-leaning. I don't care to tell people that I think it's, but I'm not. But it's like there's a certain party I know I can't vote for, but it's like. Under what premise, what foundation do I have to say, well, this party's bad, but this party's equally bad, yeah, and it's in a different light, and so I'm not? I guess we, as Christians need to. I believe this, and some people may disagree, or maybe someone in here disagrees Like I don't think we will. But I disagree.
Speaker 1:Good is getting getting ourselves in a place. We got to quit picking and choosing because what stuff looks like. We need to be praying for, just praying for the process of no division, praying for things to be reconciled. That doesn't matter if you're a right or a left. Like you truly care about the betterment of people. You care about the state of our society. You can't not tie that in with. Well, if you believe that, then you're agreeing with the sin of one side. Well then I'm going to go back to the conversation and hopefully I'm not losing you guys, but I'm gonna go back to the conversation.
Speaker 1:All politics there are flaws in it that are not Christ-like. It isn't a. They are better than us. Yes, I know that. I know the left are more open to social issues that the Republicans don't care. You know well whether we stand for this because of King Jesus. But also we stand for corporate greed. We stand for a lot of things that it destroys the poverty level, people, destroys the middle class. So it's like I don't want to pay 24, 34, whatever percent taxes you pay. I don't want to pay taxes to pay for wars and to pay for all these things. But what are we giving the world that they're going to agree with my party when we're just as much of a hypocrite? I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2:So here's what I do. I like to just remember for myself that neither party is a savior, neither party is going to save us from this sinful world. That was done one time and by one person.
Speaker 1:I don't want to cut you off on there, but I want to. I guess the next rabbit trail. I want to go on, but I want to keep going. How do we get over? Let's vote for the lesser of two evils. So here's what I think we have to do.
Speaker 2:If we're going to go that route and this will be a second episode it has to be. If you want people to start pushing the kingdom, I think you have to start in smaller areas, right, I think you have to see that start in local government and work its way up. But even where we're at now, stop voting for the lesser of two evils. Yes, I think, as a civil duty, I think you should vote, and here's how I think you should vote. I think you should familiarize yourself with all of the candidates and I think that you should vote. I think you should familiarize yourself with all of the candidates and I think that you should vote for the one that aligns with policy that you most align with. None of them are your savior.
Speaker 2:Donald Trump himself the other day, said that he's not a Christian. Guess what? That doesn't mean that Christians can't vote for him. If you want to. Kamala Harris probably not a Christian Doesn't mean you can't vote for her if you are a Christian, if she aligns with policies and she pushes policies that you agree with. Familiarize yourself with policies and all candidates, not just what the media tells you about each candidate. Familiarize yourself, study them and then vote, but for God's sakes, stop letting it cause division amongst you and your friend group. Stop fighting with your friends because they said that they're going to vote for Kamala Harris, one of my greatest friends in the world. He and I have never voted the same and guess what? I don't care. I still love him. He's still one of my best friends. I still talk to him and make fun of him when his football team does bad.
Speaker 3:So here's one thing to think about, and Brian Zahn says this a lot when he's talking about specifically nationalism, like Christian nationalism, but he says Jesus is not your mascot. Come on.
Speaker 3:Johnny said this earlier. He said we want to, or I can't remember which one of you said it, but it's talking about how they want to claim Christ as king. What they're really doing and both sides do this, but what they're really doing when they try to play towards the Christian values is they're not wanting to submit to the kingdom of God, they're wanting Jesus to come out there and be their mascot and say look, jesus is for us, we're God's side, we're closer to the Christian heart. Therefore we are the Christian party, and so they're using Jesus as a mascot. And that is textbook by definition. God Using God's name in vain, regardless of which one's doing it, that's using God's name in vain.
Speaker 3:John, you said how do we get past the voting for the lesser of two evils when you have a two party system? I don't know that you do, but the thing is is when we like, if we're trying to filter, like if you can't bring yourself to vote, like, let's say, I don't agree with either party. And I had this conversation with somebody, somebody very, very near and dear to me, and I was like I cannot vote for either candidate and thus like I'm going to do something different. And they're like, well, that's throwing away your vote. Then it's like my vote is my voice.
Speaker 3:Corey, you said it's a civic duty and it's a right, but if I think that me voting the way that I think is throwing away my vote, then I have bought into the lie that I have to support one party or the other. Yeah, and so it's like, once again, I don't know that you ever get past a vote for the lesser of two evils when you're in a true two-party system. But you have to understand that you do not answer to the party. You do not answer to the party. You do not answer to any party, and if both parties violate your convictions, vote your conviction.
Speaker 3:Vote your conviction and most people will use that as a vote right or left, but if your conviction is, you know what? I can't get behind either one of them.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you this as an example. In 2016, it was Donald Trump versus Hillary Clinton. I think I voted for a dude named Evan something I don't remember his last name Everybody that was on the ticket. I went to their website and I researched all their policies and I read the 10 pages on all of their things, and I was like this guy closely aligns to how I feel and I'm going to vote for him, and people are like well, you wasted your vote. It's like did I or did I share my voice? Yeah, it's good, Don't be afraid to share your voice. I think part of the problem, though, is because people think that if I don't vote for one of the two main candidates, I'm wasting my vote. That's the reason that people won't vote anybody else in. That is not main parties.
Speaker 1:Can I say we create so much division over administration, it's only going to be in there for four years.
Speaker 3:Something to think about. I think both of you guys have said this. We can't place our faith in politicians. Corey, you said they're not our savior. What we have to understand is the eschatological cry. The cry at the end from the earth is the kingdoms of this earth have become the kingdoms of our God and of his Christ, come on, and of his government of peace. There will be no end. The kingdoms of this earth will become the kingdoms of our God, and what we try to spin that in our twisted, perverted way is we're going to win the elections and make them the kingdom of God. That's not what that's saying. The kingdoms of this earth will burn. That's not an anarchy thing, that's not a doomsday thing.
Speaker 3:Paul says that the things that are built in this earth will be tried by fire and the things worthy will stand. The kingdoms of this world will burn, they will fall. We see it in Rome fell, jerusalem fell, all these things fell and burned. So I don't care how good it is or how like they will fall, like they will not last, and they're all inferior to the kingdom of God. Like God's kingdom is not going to adopt the American flag. It's not going to adopt the elephant or the donkey, god's kingdom, as Corey said, it transcends our politics, it transcends global politics. Come on.
Speaker 1:I was getting ready to say revival is not going to come because policies are in place. Correct Revival will come when the Holy Spirit is allowed, is ushered in by believers that don't care about who's in power.
Speaker 3:Look at how much we've changed in 2,000 years. The first 300 years of the church, it was persecuted. It was a death sentence to be baptized and the church flourished. Why do we think now, if we can win all the elections and get everything just right, the church is going to progress?
Speaker 3:And what we end up doing? Is we end up faking persecution. He used to be a worship artist. He's a political figure now, but that's what he would do, is he would like fake as dude. Every time he came out with a song, he would post about how he's been canceled by some obscure music label and then basically, like, try to get people to come out and support him and let's show the left how it's going to be, and then increase sales of his song or increase sales of his album. And it's like that's what we do because, like, we don't have persecution, we're not, like we're not truly persecuted in the West. And so what we do is we have this fake mindset of, if I can show them that they're that the proverbial they are trying to cancel me Really, that the proverbial they are trying to cancel me Really, oh God, I'm going to go, which we're going to have to give a part two to this.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because I really like where we're going.
Speaker 3:Can I read a quote to wrap up? Yeah, I feel like it's Rich.
Speaker 2:Valotis, it is Rich Valotis. I can see your Instagram page and I know what his Instagram looks like. I screenshot it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Over here, me and Corey are ready to go to a football game today. It looks like. Thank you for letting us be a part of your ministry, rich.
Speaker 3:Philotis said. I propose we move from, and quote you can't be a true Christian if you vote for. Fill in the blank, move from that to. You can't be a true Christian if you don't follow the Sermon on the Mount. The next one is he said no matter how you vote, you are welcome in our church. I just ask that you would commit to see politics through Jesus and not Jesus through your politics, that you would be curious about why your brothers and sisters see things differently, and that you would live humble, prayerful lives.
Speaker 2:That's so good. Yeah, I think we could keep going. This is a hot-button issue. I like the direction that we're going with it, but I think we've made up in our mind we don't want to give these people hour, hour-and-a-half-long episodes.
Speaker 3:I was a poly-sci major, a political science major, and I didn't start out that way. But let's treat this as like political science 101, even though this is just the intro, the teaser, yeah, so this is just our intro to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah so let's close with this and then we'll pray. The reason that we started this the way that we did, and the reason we gave you the intro that we gave you, is because we want you to understand all of us are going to vote in November, 100%, but regardless of how you vote and those of you listening, regardless of how you vote, know that we love you, know that it's not going to change how we think about you and know that you're welcome at the churches that all of us go to, because at this point, all three of us represent three different ministries and three different churches and not only are you welcome, but you are wanted and politics are not going to divide us. Us, because while you may see something differently than I do, it doesn't change the fact that I love you, that I see you as my neighbor and that I am more about God's business than I am any other worldly business that we could possibly be about.
Speaker 3:Can I give a quote from I think this was from my pastor, like two or three weeks ago, yep, he said we have people in this church who are as far left as you can be. And he said and we embrace them, but not their ideas. He said we have people in this church who are as far right as you can be and we fully embrace them, but not their ideas. We have to be able to do that as Christians. Yeah, embrace them, but not their ideas. We have to be able to do that as Christians. We have to be able to embrace each other, to truly love one another, regardless of how we vote or think, doesn't mean you have to embrace the idea. You can disagree with how they live their life, with how they think and their whole mantra, but you have to be able to love them and fully embrace them as a human being worthy of the love, a human being that carries the image of God. They're worthy of every dignity, respect and love.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And if you have a hard time with that in today's society, stay off social media. Yeah, amen, just stay off social media, johnny pray us out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's pray. And again, thank you guys for joining us. But, father, we thank you for this episode.
Speaker 1:Lord, just dabbling in a what we call a hard topic, but really doesn't have to be hard, and I pray that we can bring some light to some things. And again, there's not everybody's going to agree with this, and I never want it, lord. I just never want to be in a position where I feel like I'm right or I have the answers that I. I want to be like the clay, lord. I don't want to be so hard into the things I don't understand. I do want to walk in truth, I want to stand on your word, lord. But, god, help me to be a better Christian, help me to be a better believer, a better man that walks, not wanting to always be right, but willing to have a conversation, to learn.
Speaker 1:And so, father, I pray that that's what this podcast is. We teach people to pull your guard down and just listen. It could set free, it could create revival in our atmospheres, lord, with people we don't normally would ever be able to reach. But they understand that we don't just have a fate like, we don't just have a wall up. We're actually people that have been affected by the love of Jesus and we're called to release it out. So, lord, I just pray against any division that politics is going to bring. Lord, I know it's going to be there, because the enemy comes to kill, steal and destroy, but Jesus, you come to give life and I pray that through this election process we can spread life in our churches, in our small groups and in our world and through this podcast. God, we honor you, we lift you up in Jesus name, amen.
Speaker 2:Amen, love you guys.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you, guys, for joining us here at the we Are Alliance podcast. We're so thankful that you have spent some time with us. Hopefully you have been encouraged. Hopefully you feel like your faith has grown a little bit more. That is our heart, that is our intent is to see you get closer to Jesus and become that reflected image Again. If you want to partner with us, we'd love your financial support. Check out the bio. There'll be a link for our PayPal, because we can't do this without your continued prayers and support, so please consider that. Hey, you have an incredible rest of your week and we hope to see you back here on the next episode. Bye.